tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8283674149915853764.post4098315456619966470..comments2024-02-15T23:56:02.370-08:00Comments on MPAK Blog: MOHW Response ReceivedSteve Morrisonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08485811260567035056noreply@blogger.comBlogger59125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8283674149915853764.post-66866971427535126922012-02-27T12:30:48.925-08:002012-02-27T12:30:48.925-08:00South Korea doesn't owe us anything..However t...South Korea doesn't owe us anything..However they do owe their children, South Korean citzens a chance to live with a family.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8283674149915853764.post-43667095009219121402012-02-26T13:10:44.572-08:002012-02-26T13:10:44.572-08:00I'm pretty sure that with China, the situation...I'm pretty sure that with China, the situation went from a large number of healthy baby girls to only a small number of baby girls available. So, referrals slowed WAY down. Once matched, I don't think there is much of a delay with China. Thus, the waiting child/special needs program in China is still going strong but those waiting for a healthy baby girl have been waiting for quite some time.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8283674149915853764.post-13115172781486197182012-02-25T13:54:36.968-08:002012-02-25T13:54:36.968-08:00Steve,
Is there anything we can learn or project a...Steve,<br />Is there anything we can learn or project about future Korean adoptions (EPs) from looking at what happended with the China slowdown 4-5 yrs ago. I know Chinese adoption waits went from 6mos to 4yrs at one point. I don't know the details.<br />Did Chinese adoptions slow down because of the Quotas like Korea is imposing?<br />thanks for any input. i am just trying to make some sense of it. My main concern is that our first child from Korea was 10mos and did so great, and now our 2nd child likey will be 24mos or greater. Unfair to create this adjustment difficulty just to abide by arbitrary quotas.<br /><br />Thanks in advance. I really respect your input and prospective.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03330933189362922804noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8283674149915853764.post-86818206069868367802012-02-25T08:37:05.816-08:002012-02-25T08:37:05.816-08:00We think everyone here is serious. And as the orig...We think everyone here is serious. And as the original poster rightly pointed out, it's not a very high priority on the issues list between the two nations. Our information is that this is more than an "handful" of US families; it's in the many hundreds waiting for an EP and many thousands waiting for a referral. Perhaps others here have different information? And, while other nations have issues, one of the reasons many people choose Korea is due to the (past) lack of issues. In our experience, it's widely known that these other countries have issues, so people should be cautious in dealing with them. In addition, changing the rules midstream for those already well into the process is simply not acceptable. And, the US can do whatever it wants - if the world wants the US to bail them out, police problem areas under the guise of the UN (and not be reimbursed for the massive expense that this is and that this nation can no longer afford), provide economic, food, and military assistance, and enter into free trade agreements to benefit other nations (to the detriment of our own - just look at the sorry state of our current economy), then yes, the US, in our view, has the right to be a bit of a bully if that's what's necessary. The rest of the world can't have it both ways when it comes the US. That's our view, and others can disagree. We agree with the premise of the original poster. Maybe that's xenophobic or nationalistic - perhaps and perhaps not. Obviously, no one wants to bully anyone as a first choice option; we think we all just want commitments honored in a fair way. That's all. Nothing more, nothing less. And of course of paramount importance (goes without saying) is the well being of the children. Honoring these commitments benefits everyone, especially the children, and harms no one. There's no downside for Korea to honor these commitments, especially if it's explained to the Korean people in a way that makes sense and is sensitive to internal political issues. This post is not intended to create anger; it's just the view of one family. Feel free to agree or to disagree.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8283674149915853764.post-87251089168939317882012-02-25T05:28:38.811-08:002012-02-25T05:28:38.811-08:00Let's be serious. This is very important to us...Let's be serious. This is very important to us. But in the grand scheme of the whole world and US relations with Korea, it's not very high on the importance scale. And let's take a broader look at international adoption programs around the world today. There are problems in many programs. Check out the issues with the Ethiopia program. Remember what happened with the Guatemala program? China's traditonal program has a 5+ year wait for referral. Remember when Russia shut down - and that program is still very shakey right now. There are issues with Ukraine (I know a family that anticipated 6 weeks in country and was there for 2 1/2 months for no good reason). Don't think that Korea is the only country that is having issues. The US can't just step in to another country and tell them how to run their programs. They just don't have the authority. And nor do we want them doing that. Or even stepping up and "demanding" answers. The program is not shut down and even if it was, it's their decision to make. The US should not be a bully that tries to get what they want just because a hand full of citizens have to wait a few more months than anticipated.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8283674149915853764.post-46697185824811310232012-02-24T20:46:15.451-08:002012-02-24T20:46:15.451-08:00I think that some misunderstood the purpose of the...I think that some misunderstood the purpose of the above post. No one is on a high horse and even if they were, it would be justified. Some people are not passive and take action where action is needed, and given the apparent ineptitude of the US agencies that many have commented on in various posts on this site, perhaps it is in fact time that someone stood up and demanded answers. It's not about the taxes or personal financial gain (it was just an FYI - nothing more). Certainly the children are the most important thing. No question. People have and continue to contact the Embassy and in general, they have been sympathetic and have tried to help to the very limited degree that they can. No one is going to post those names in a public forum due to the sensitivity of the issue, but some people have had private dialogue offline about this. And, no one (I don't think) is comparing a TV to a child; it's the principle of fair play that I think a reply (to the original post) poster made. Insofar as the military and economic security of Korea: you can't play by different rules than everyone else. With all respect - Korea as it stands today would not even be a nation without the United States. It's all fine and dandy that we support them and they have generally been an ally. But to turn around and treat US citizens like this is not acceptable. Pure and simple. No one is ever seriously going to threaten the economic and military security of Korea that the United States provides. However, terms of our agreements could be changed such that they are no longer as favorable. In the end, this is about a culture that is based on honor - that honor is being seriously tarnished by this behavior; it's about fair play; and, most importantly, it's about the kids. No reasonable person could seriously argue that this process, as it currently stands, is good for the kids. The point of the original poster, above, I think, was to just point out how unbalanced the situation is, how it affects the kids, and how it might affect families in any number of ways. I didn't read it as comparing a TV to a kid or just doing this for tax purposes. I read it as informational and one person's opinion. For us, this is our second adoption from Korea and our first was smooth - this is crazy. People will have differing opinions, which is great. We don't all have to agree.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8283674149915853764.post-8407173138841552552012-02-24T20:33:08.829-08:002012-02-24T20:33:08.829-08:00The problem is, at least in our case, our agency *...The problem is, at least in our case, our agency *knew* about this issue and didn't disclose it. So, that makes (per counsel) the statement about no guarantees moot. It's called fraud. Hopefully, we don't have to go down that road. But to hold harmless the American agencies is ludicrous.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8283674149915853764.post-9352057619431463032012-02-24T20:05:45.192-08:002012-02-24T20:05:45.192-08:00Love the idea of fasting!!! Since becoming apart o...Love the idea of fasting!!! Since becoming apart of the Korean adoption world, a few years ago.I have been so impressed of the family feeling I have felt. SATAN is loving every minute of driving a wedge between us with this ridiculous situation. We must be strong for our children. We must stick together. Our children WILL COME HOME!!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8283674149915853764.post-42973150054792185002012-02-24T17:22:33.147-08:002012-02-24T17:22:33.147-08:00I agree, we all have the right to be upset. I don...I agree, we all have the right to be upset. I don't think anyone would expect us to feel any differently, and if they do than they clearly don't understand what it means to be an adoptive parent. I'm going crazy over this and I want my daughter home! However, we don't really have any sort of contract with Korea (or even a Korean agency) at all and they have ZERO obligation to us. We have an agreement with an American adoption agency that facilitates adoptions (via another agency) in Korea. Our "contract" with our agency was very clear that there are no guarantees with international adoptions and programs can change without notice and countries can close without warning. We have a contract with them, not Korea. Honestly I don't know if the Korean government really even knows how many children are matched with a family waiting until they are submitted for EP (though I could be completely wrong on this). I think the statement "it is our hope that in the future something could be worked out between the agencies to shorten the waiting periods between the time of referral and the time of granting EPs" is very telling to that end. It sounds like MOHW is saying the agencies need to be responsible in the way they give out referrals so there isn't a backlog. I honestly won't breathe easy about any of this until my daughter is home and her adoption is finalized. I am hoping we ALL hear good news soon!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8283674149915853764.post-88090692428830464262012-02-24T15:44:04.128-08:002012-02-24T15:44:04.128-08:00I third that. You said it perfectly. We do have a ...I third that. You said it perfectly. We do have a right to be upset. It'd be weird if we weren't. I do agree that though Korea "owes" us nothing ... we did enter into a formal contract. It's awkward to speak like this bc we're speaking about humans and it's inevitable we'll get the "my child is not a TV" statement. But we do have a contract.Jeanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08519501274665889645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8283674149915853764.post-43938382733554517052012-02-24T14:31:53.548-08:002012-02-24T14:31:53.548-08:00I agree, fasting is a good idea. Ultimately we sho...I agree, fasting is a good idea. Ultimately we should petition the Lord. He is the One who knows the times and the days. And He is always on time.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8283674149915853764.post-20948210229628602932012-02-24T13:38:36.741-08:002012-02-24T13:38:36.741-08:00Thank you very much for your prayers and fasting. ...Thank you very much for your prayers and fasting. I wish that more Americans would turn their hearts to God. But glad to see that there are people who are taking this matter to God and praying for all the children that need to come home, and for all the families that are waiting with anguish. I have been praying that God will touch the people at MOHW to release the children soon. But I haven't thought about fasting, and I think that is a good idea. Thank you.Steve Morrisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08485811260567035056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8283674149915853764.post-50899632651251560872012-02-24T13:26:02.102-08:002012-02-24T13:26:02.102-08:00I too would like to advocate that we don't all...I too would like to advocate that we don't allow anger to drive our actions. And even without anger, any attempts we might make to put pressure on the system seem to have just a good of a chance of backfiring.<br /><br />Like all of us, I'm very frustrated at the bureaucracy that is keeping children from their assigned families. And I think it is completely accurate to say that it is wrong. It is not in the best interests of the children, and there are always things that could have been done to prevent it. I'm not going to put blind faith in the system that has made the transitions for these kids harder. At the same time, I don't think this means I have to hate the Ministry as the "enemy". Whatever mistakes they've made, they're still working, however slowly and privately, at getting our children home. And I can't believe that they don't care or that there are no individuals that care. <br /><br />So let's continue to pray for our children, pray for the Korean government, and pray for each other. And let's thank God for Steve and anyone else that can keep this issue from being forgotten. My wife and I are fasting and praying for these things every Thursday until our son comes home. Feel free to join us.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8283674149915853764.post-59514232793601480622012-02-24T12:48:52.197-08:002012-02-24T12:48:52.197-08:00Well said!Well said!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8283674149915853764.post-40603316461043663002012-02-24T12:47:48.079-08:002012-02-24T12:47:48.079-08:00Well said!Well said!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8283674149915853764.post-1413152098975092102012-02-24T12:04:11.252-08:002012-02-24T12:04:11.252-08:00It is true that the Korean government did not owe ...It is true that the Korean government did not owe any of us a child. However, since they had an international adoption program and allowed the agencies to accept our applications, etc., they certainly had a contract with us. We all fulfilled our part of that contract. They now should be expected to fulfill their part. Yes, they are not the U.S. government, but they can reasonably be expected to keep their promises. If we believed we were dealing with a culture that did not honor commitments, I don't think we would be saying all the positive things most of are saying about Korea. We do have a positive image of Korea or we wouldn't have ever decided that we wanted to adopt children there. It is reasonable for us to want answers to our questions and concerns. It is possible to feel grateful for the good things that our children have in their native land and still want them to be with us sooner rather than later. And it seems reasonable that we would try to do whatever we can to make that happen. I think what we all want at this point is just to know what that is.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8283674149915853764.post-10661631580017308362012-02-24T09:09:01.384-08:002012-02-24T09:09:01.384-08:00That is the point. If our children were only that ...That is the point. If our children were only that important.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8283674149915853764.post-43193950019104584932012-02-24T09:00:34.988-08:002012-02-24T09:00:34.988-08:00Beautifully said, and I think you have summed up h...Beautifully said, and I think you have summed up how the majority of us feel.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8283674149915853764.post-16424246346052594522012-02-24T08:34:08.262-08:002012-02-24T08:34:08.262-08:00I agree. We all are suffering with this wait- we&...I agree. We all are suffering with this wait- we've been waiting 14 months on our son. It's hard, and painful, and discouraging to get little to no information on what's happening. Steve has been a lifeline with the encouragement and information he's managed to share. And we are totally grafteful for that. <br />It is an extremly personal and painful process right now. However- we still have to keep things in persepective: we aren't the ONLY ones struggling with this wait and issue here. It's hard on the US agencies; having to manage and constantly refocus the expectations of their families. And, with no direct link to Korea, they are literally the front-line in hearing the discouragement and disappointment from adoptive parents. It's hard on the Korean agencies; having to manage the health and well-being of all of those children for so much longer, maintaining contact with all of the foster families and children's homes, and making sure all of the legal documents are taken care of properly. Not to mention passing on individual information on each child to US agencies. It's a BIG job, one I can't even imagine all the details to. And then the MOHW. Adoption isn't the only area they are responsible for, and while it IS the most important thing to us, they are coming from a different place than we are. They are responsible for good decisions that will impact an entire country, not only our children. Korea is playing catch-up in the adoption front, trying to comply with all the Hague stuff. They are trying to aid these children, in the face of very loud opposition to international adoption within Korea. They do value the lives of our little ones. Other wise, they would just bow to public pressure and stop the program all together. (I believe it's a small group in opposition, but they are loud and very public, so they get a lot of press and attention both in Korea and globally) <br />I hate this wait, it's to the point now where our son almost doesn't seem real. However, I respect and appreciate the Korean government for allowing us to adopt one of their little ones. I'm grateful that they do value these children and are trying to work it out- rather than sticking them all in some far-off orphanage and erasing their futures and abilities to have a chance at a family. I don't expect the Korean government to act like the US government. It's a different world, with different systems and cultural expectations, and we have to respect them as such. As hard as it is, Korea does not OWE me my child- so I must wait on them. <br />I wish we didn't have to wait, and I wish we had more concrete answers. But right now, it is what it is, and we must hold tight until the EPs begin to flow and we can see all the changes that are coming. It's not wrong to be upset about the wait- but let's be grateful that we are even able to be in this adoption process, that we even have babies waiting for us, and that they are being so well cared for in Korea while they wait.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8283674149915853764.post-38251897626411908582012-02-24T07:52:04.623-08:002012-02-24T07:52:04.623-08:00Did you seriously just compare my son to a TV? I s...Did you seriously just compare my son to a TV? I should hope that Korea is more careful about placing a child in a home than they are about exporting TV's. Please don't make comments like this.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8283674149915853764.post-61871309305181671412012-02-24T07:26:23.414-08:002012-02-24T07:26:23.414-08:00Exactly. It's impossible not to let your emoti...Exactly. It's impossible not to let your emotions and mind wander to catastrophic thinking but we need to keep it together. There is no reason to assume the worst case scenario. Right now we are hurting and want to see our children, but the negative comments on this blog are not helping anyone's situation. Can we please refocus our energy on loving our children from afar and supporting a country that is beautiful and cherishes it's children. If we want Steve to continue to gain information for us we need to thank him for what he can offer and leave it at that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8283674149915853764.post-24356703194270356412012-02-24T07:24:36.570-08:002012-02-24T07:24:36.570-08:00You know , Korea hosted the entire Winter Olympics...You know , Korea hosted the entire Winter Olympics and had THOUSANDS of people come to Korea in just 2 weeks. Seoul can handle it. I bet any family who has been waiting so long would do WHATEVER IT WOULD TAKE to ensure there was as little disruption to the agencies and people. The bottom line is this? What is the value of getting these children placed ? You know I bet if there were this many LG TVS waiting for export and not getting an export permit; Koreans would be UP IN ARMS.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8283674149915853764.post-62631381822732297872012-02-24T07:10:46.707-08:002012-02-24T07:10:46.707-08:00Steve -- I appreciate that you are so involved in ...Steve -- I appreciate that you are so involved in a process that is so difficult to navigate. Even some insight into the process helps. I realize this is not official info. Does Korea ever have official info published? Where would it be? What is the last official announcement? The July 1 announcement in the Korean Times?<br /><br />As far as the statement, I look at this whole situation as:<br />What would be done in Korea? And are we being treated even close?<br />Korean citizens would NEVER stand for this. IF a Korean had to wait this long to adopt domestically there would be like 2 adoptions a year. The govt made up of Koreans is asking those outside of their country to do what their own citizens would never do. A Korean inside the country would LAUGH at the absurdity of waiting this long to adopt a child.<br /><br />We deserve just a little bit of consideration. As noted in the note - Koreans themselves have 700 disruptions in adoption a year domestically. The US doesn't even have 700 EPs a year. The disruption rate of international adoption is extremely low with a very long history. As the Japanese process management philosophy says: STOP the line for a tiny thing makes no sense in a process.<br /><br />Their comment - We are waiting for approval shows several things. #1. The person responding is not willing to give any real information. I would have liked to even see, if approved, we feel that this wait will begin to reduce in the next several months or a month or in 1 day or even by the end of the year. Yet there is no mention of if what they have submitted will even get these waiting children home. This leaves tons of room open for when no/few children leave - we do not know who or why. It could be the approving party, it could be the MOHW, it could be anything. #2. There is another approval body/person. It was my impression the MOHW was in charge. Who is approving ? The head of the MOHW? I am not even sure who is speaking for this but I would assume someone who is close to the process. #3. Like any "approval" there is the option of Approve in full; Modify; Reject; or any interim decision. Plus unless there is a high level of collaboration between approval and working bodies; things are always modified. I have worked in negotiation a long time. And one thing is pretty obvious; there is not a high level of cooperation around this process. I find this "We're done; we wait for approval" a very - its not MY fault; we handed it off kind of statement. IF this is true , who is accountable and that is where a statement is required from. <br /><br />And finally my thought is - a communication of date does not restart the bar. I saw a comment that we have only been waiting or 2 weeks as they said EPs in Feb. No. People have been waiting since the announcement LAST JUNE when EPs were announced and it became clear that most referrals of 2011 would not come home in 2011. Even some referrals in 2010. So people have been waiting since 2010 with the expectation of mid 2011. The wait is considerably long from referral. If anything, I believe the law should be changed in Korea that a child may not be referred until the child is available to leave the country. The family should be FULLY APPROVED by time they are allowed to wait.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8283674149915853764.post-26796803989925428432012-02-24T06:59:02.410-08:002012-02-24T06:59:02.410-08:00Not to be weird, but the Ministry has not said no;...Not to be weird, but the Ministry has not said no; it's just not said when. If and when we get a definitive no, we shouldn't be thinking like that. The lack of information is what's making us all crazy, and Steve Morrison is the only person right now with a line to the MOHW. It's human nature to go crazy, become anxious, and want to do something when we are not given facts and information. But they have not said no. They give no indication of saying no.Jeanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08519501274665889645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8283674149915853764.post-14845390295491438792012-02-24T06:40:53.631-08:002012-02-24T06:40:53.631-08:00I agree with the posters above. The Korean govern...I agree with the posters above. The Korean government and people don't owe us these children. If they decided to close the program tomorrow (which I hope to God would never happen) they could. We are not entitled to anything. I want this process to proceed as fast as possible and it sucks to feel so powerless, but we have to be patient and trust that the Korean government ultimately wants these children to be raised by families. Hang in there, but please don't do anything rash that could jeopardize the process for us all. Let the officials work it out.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com